Gemming and Glyping for the PvE Soul.
Hey everyone! There’s a lot of questions going around regarding the most efficient way to glyph and gem your gear for maximum efficiency….and Today we’re gonna cover just that!
Prot Glyphs
As far as glyphs go, it’s pretty straight forward you have 3 minor and 3 major to work with and for a prot warrior your glyphs are generally the same for any situation.
The must have glyph for tanking is:
Glyph of Shield Slam-Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using your Shield Slam ability.
The CD on Shield Slam is only 6 seconds, so that means a constant 10% block increase.
Since prot warriors gained AoE tanking abilities; I’ve felt the need to abuse that as much as possible because I come from a tanking time where nothing but Paladins ruled the mulit-mob tanking.
For the two last prot warrior glyph I find there’s nothing better than Glyph of Devastate with Glyph of Sunder Armor
Now while your tanking you NEVER use Sunder Armor, instead you need to use Devastate to stack sunders, with this match up your devastates will stack two at a time on your main target. Glyph of Sunder Armor plus Glyph of Devastate results in two sunders on the primary target and one sunder on the secondary target. This is amazing for warrior AoE tanking if you’re working with 2-4 mobs at a time. Now many warriors might want to switch out the devastate glyph for the Glyph of Shockwave. for AoE tanking as well. That is by no means a bad idea. In fact, you should try both and see which ones works better for you.
As for Minor Glyphs, you really only have 4 prot warrior glyphs to choose from so it’s really up to you. The most popular choices are: Glyph of Bloodrage, Glyph of Charge, and Glyph of Thunder Clap.
Prot Gems
As far as gems go, it’s pretty simple. When you fist start out tanking heroics, you want to gem out for Defense rating (yellow) until you get up to the Def Cap which is 540.
Once you hit that magic number, you want to gem out for either Str which will give you block, or Stam which of course will pump up your HP.
Your tanking stats will scale with your gear and as you get more gear you can start replacing your def gems with stam and block. Just make sure your keep at or above your DefCap.
ARMS Glyphs
For your PvE Arms needs, the following are pretty standard Arms warrior Glyphs: Glyph of Mortal Strike, Glyph of Rending, and Glyph of Execution
Quick rundown: Glyph of Rending is your Jesus glyph! It’s a MUST have. As a PvE Arms warrior, your main priority is to keep rend up at all times, the extra 6 seconds is an extra 6 seconds of straight up, ass-kicking, dps you can do before you have to take out time to refresh your rend.
10% Extra MS Damage is pretty obvious…you smash harder.
Now The Glyph of Execution is amazing with your Sudden Death talent. It adds a flat 380 dmg increase, before armor and armor pen. Yummy.
For minor, once again, it doesn’t really matter. I use Battle, Bloodrage, and Charge.
ARMS GEMS
As a general rule, do not ever gem for crit. When your first start out raiding and doing heroics, you have to work on making sure you are Hit Capped.
It doesn’t matter how hard you hit something, if you always miss it.
-ARMS- Hit cap – 262.32,
-Yellow cap – 262.32-
-Expertise Cap – 148 w/ Weapon Mastery, 215 without.”
At first you want to make sure to gem for hit until you reach your cap. Once you get capped and get more and more gear, you won’t even have to gem for it or even worry about it. Naxx gear and especially Uld gear is loaded with hit. Expertise Cap is really a choice, if you stand behind your target (YOU NEED TO BE) then it’s not really a problem. Also with better gear you won’t even have to worry about it.
Once you’re all set up in your hit caps, the question arises: Strength or ArP?
That’s the question everyone is asking. I’ve researched this until I wanted to scratch my eyes out, and this is my simple conclusion.
ArP is better than Str, and it gets better the more of it you have. However, if you have a small amount your better off with Str.
So what do you do? Gem Str, until you get into higher end raids, where the gear is loaded with ArP. Once you get around 25 or 30% from your gear then GEM GEM GEM for Armor Penetration (ArP).
Fury Glyphs
If you’ve chosen to raid as a fury warrior even after the 10% dmg nerf than you’re a bigger man than I, unless you have two Uldar weapons you’re doing less damage...period.
Top 3 choices are: Glyph of Whirlwind, Glyph of Heroic Strike, Glyph of Execution/Cleaving.
Lower CD on Whirlwind=more usage, which means more DPS.
More Rage from Heroic Strike= More Rage to spend on Whirlwind.
The Split between Execution and Cleaving is, once again, a personal choice.
Fury GEMS
Gemming for a fury warrior very similar to Arms
First thing first you need to get at hit cap:
-FURY- Hit cap – 688.59 with 3/3 precision (which is not what you want) you should get to 260-295 with 3/3 precision.
-Yellow cap – 163.95 with 3/3 precision, 262.32 without.
-Expertise cap – 215
Get your Hit and Exp Capped first. Now with Fury, you also do not want to gem with Crit, unless your Crit is very low (under 25%)
You want to gem your fury warrior for Str and a lot of it.
A note on gemming a warrior in General, DO NOT GEM AP. 1 str=2 ap anyway and str will scale more with raid buffs (i.e. BoK) than AP ever will.
We’ll hopefully your eyes don’t hurt after reading all of that lol. Thanks for reading my first major post, Happy Smashing!
-Malacor
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26 comments:
I have been trying alot of these out and started Macroing yesterday - I wish we had 4 glyph slots since i like the Hamstring Glyph and stuck it one of my macros. Being able to stun a PvP or any guy in front of you for 6 sec is something we most defintiely could use. I understand it has a 10% chance of procing but if that hits you pretty much have a solid shot of putting that PvP or BG opponent in the graveyard. Thx!
Oh man you should have seen when you could go duel maces and have the stun effect going back in the day. Warriors were pretty much like rogues with plate armor...it was grand.
Incidentally there are still a few ways to sorta achieve this effect but you have to be a twink to accomplish it. There are several “mace” weapons at various levels that are two handed (one of them is a BS item), but have a 10 second...yes 10 second stun on them. Can you imagine duel wielding two of those and having your way with people...here’s the kicker...they are TWO HANDED weapons so you can do it in Berserker stance and not suffer to much in the way of burst damage.
With the new perma twink 3.2 patch changes I’ve been contemplating creating a level 60 warrior for that purpose alone.
Hamstring is THE bread and butter of warrior in PVP.
If you think about it as soon as you blow your charge and intercept if something gets out of range you’re basically just running around for the next 10-15 seconds with a big weapon and nothing to hit.
Hamstring takes priority over ALL other attacks IMHO, unless it’s a killing blow.
I dropped the hamstring glyph the other night to give the bladestorm glyph a try but wasn’t able to get into many arena that night so I’m still not sure if I’m going to like it. I had to respec to get the “hamstring” effect though and it is a very convenient skill. When you spec and glyph for it the proc rating is significant enough to be beneficial.
Man I do miss the old Mace Spec....although I do love the new one for its ability to cross breed PvE and PvP so nicely. Which reminds me, Grats on Jawbone Blackthought!
You only need 535 defense rating to tank heroics. You will find no raid bosses in them.
So with the mace spec givin u the extra 15% when u mouse over your stats, mine says 187 rating - 15.18%, combine those im gold to stack with armour pen gems right? Another thing, i aquired new gear and my hit rating as an arms warrior is now 11.56%, am i ready to go back to fury?
Well with 15.18-15= .18%
So your basically not getting any from gear yet, I would wait until your around 30% before i got all out and gem for it.
and to Revix.
Yea your right. You only need 535, and once you start tanking heroics you should have that anyway. I intended this to be more for going into raids so i didn't think about it lol .
As for the hit% really the 11% you have is equivalent to putting a bottle rocket onto a missle...SURE, it adds SOME thrust, but you’re already where you should be...you should think about gemming for strength or ArP depending on where you’re ArP from armor is at.
As a general rule of thumb anything above 8.5-9% for hit is being wasted. If this is coming from ANY gems or enchants you should remove them and go for the other stats. IF however the 11+% is from your gear then I wouldn’t really worry about it just know that if something drops or you have a chance to get something that takes a hit in hit rating BUT gives you more of another state (hell even haste) is going to be a better.
Yeah i dont have any enchants or gems with hit, exept for ice walker on my boots, i have all Str or Crt gems. Now i get a lot of diff opinions on whats bestter, Arp or Str, a guy i know said i should gem for Arp, and i see a lot of warriors gem diff with the same gear, so this is all comfusing. A guy on my server said that in order to go back to fury, i need 2 weapons that have 210dps (ironsoul, betrayer, ect) does this guy know what he's talkin about? I checked forums and websites and can't really seem to get the "holy grail" answers i need.
The ArP question...
IF you can get around 20-30% from GEAR THEN gem for it. IF you cannot, then gem strength till you get the 30% from gear and then ArP>Strength, here is another little write up we did not to long ago, it gives a good birds eye view of what ArP is and what it does and why it works and on whom it works best. http://warrior-guides.blogspot.com/2009/07/arp-armor-penetration-you-understanding.html
Fury – IF you have 210+ weapons then YES it is viable again. You have to think about Fury, which is designed around burst damage and crits. Both Burst and Crit are much better when you get a decent weapon set. I’ve seen people with 1k top end damage weapons pulling some really nice numbers. I’ve also seen people with some not so hot weapons making a fool of them selves. As a rule of thumb I would say anything weapon NOT Betrayer, Uldar, or Furious(pvp) is just not going to do it.
If you’re not already farming 10 man FL at the very least then you need to seriously consider doing this for Ironsoul...damn thing dropped last week and I lost to a DK (like he needs it)
hows that for a holy grail:)
Yeah my armour pen rating is 123-9.9%, I obviously have a long way to go, having full 7.5 gear (chest 7.0) mace spec with Inevitable defeat im pullin 2.5k on boss dummy seems really low to me, and i follow the reccomemded rotation. I checked forums and there seems to be like a million diff rotations that various warriors use.
2.5k is decent enough for a 7.5 warrior first off...
Here’s the thing about warriors...ok first, I’m going to use a term I’m loath to use because people use it to much and don’t really know what it means, but I’m gonna use it anyways.
Warriors SCALE (this is the term) with their weapon(s) and gear more than any other class because ALL of our damage is Melee and weapon based...
ARMS warriors especially because almost all of their attacks WEAPON DAMAGE based.
I’ve posted about 15 different posts complaining about having to use the Wrath Spear from 10 man nax and my DPS sucking rocks. I recently got the Jawbone and I’ve been able to increase my dps by 500-800 with just a new weapon. All your bleeding effects are weapon based, MS, Execute and Slam all weapon based. I believe Overpower is too.
Most warriors start with a titansteel destroyer or the Axe from HHOL.
From their they usually pick up a weapon from 10 man nax (death’s Bite)
Then a 25 man weapon (jawbone, Betrayer of Humanity,etc)
Then Uldar.
If you’ve been into Uldar with a group of reasonably geared people warriors are represented fairly well on the dps charts, but only if the warrior is decently geared and the warrior has a good weapon.
To be honest an optimal Arms warrior rotation is hard to hammer down because there really isn’t one. I’ve ran several scenarios and the difference between using over power when it procs and using an execute results in about a 200-500 dps increase. So the issue is not really in the rotation, it’s in the gear.
For the record your rotation priority should be
1. Keep rend up, sunder armor too if there is no warrior tank
2. Instant Execute
3. MS
4. Overpower proc
5. Slam between the MS and Execute proc
6. In rare rage heavy fights throw in a heroic strike
Even if you do hit all your procs and such you can still sometimes only dish out 2-3k dps.
BUT rest assured that once you do get gear you can still be in the 5-8k dps range easily... or so I’m told :(
Malacor what’s your take?
U have no idea how much better i feel right now after your comment, Thank you, thank you very much.
On a training dummy Warriors will allways do low Dps because the dummy doesn't fight back, so you get less rage to work with.
I feel you can only compair your dummy dps to other warriors and not other classes that are not "useing" the damage you take for an offencive abilety.
2k5 on a dummy sounds to me OK.
It will probably put you over 3-4k in a Naxx25 run with raidbuffs and real mobs.
This is actually a very good point. More often than not i'll reset my recount after I hit 100 rage just to get a better feel...but in the end the rage is not there, or are the executes with full rage sometimes which i've hit bosses for anywhere from 8-12k.
I am sitting on 30% Armor Pen from gear alone on my raiding gear. Should I now stack armor pen gems as opposed to str gems? Another question, I finally have made a pvp gear set. Should I stack Resil gems, str, armor pen, or what? I've been told armor pen but I'd really like your input Blackthought. Thanks :)
I would say yes to stacking ArP on the raid set. Let us know if you see a change in your DPS when you do so. I would suggest the 20+ ArP gems BTW. Just till around 50% or so, do you have Grim Troll? and a mace?
for The resil set, especially since you said "CRAFT" i'm going to go ahead and say you're talking about the saronite set. YOU my friend are a blacksmith's best friend, however I would strongly suggest people, especially hardcore raiders, forgo the saronite set and pug VOA 10/25 man as much as possible and simply GRIND out the rest in honor to get AT LEAST hateful...and always que up for WG to get a 780+ AP trinket there too.
DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON THE ANVIL OF TITANS, I REAPEAT DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. It procs every third sunday, you're better off with the On demand trinket.
Truth be told in BG's while the Resil is nice of the 78 set because the set bonus isn't really helping I would rather run in raid gear with ArP.
IF however you don't want to let teh gear go to waste then i would say stack strength and possibly stam. If you have the full pvp 78 set then the resil on that should be enough...for now.
OH GET THE PVP TRINKET, the AP increasing one.
Hi its me again. Ok i pulled 4.2k on Loken last night. Had some upgrades to gear, got around 27% Arp pen from gear, so i gemmed up with my 3 J/C's 36Arp gems, i put +10 all stats gem in chest and enchanted chest with +8 all stats.(8.5) I got my 8.5 brain bucket today, and currently im sittin at 34.91%arp from gear, weapon (ironsoul with berzerker) and gems. (i should note that i have no grim toll yet) Should i continue on gemmin Arp? Im Gaik on Argent Dawn. Check me out im cute. oh another thing my crit % dropped a bit its at 26.46%.
Hey its me from august 5th. i asked about if i should start stacking armor pen on my raid gear. I started stacking and am sitting on 53% armor pen...without a mace O.o. I do have the grim troll. And since i started stacking my dps has gone up by over 1000. And when i talked about making a pvp set what i meant was that i put one together :) its half deadly half hateful. now with this being said, which gems should i put on my pvp gear?
Ah glad we could be of some useful assistance.
As for PVP ArP, I've heard mixed things. I havne't had a chance to test it out....as it's a VERY expensive test lol. I was going to grind some ArP gems this weekend and stack now that I got a good weap and see how it pans out.
If anyone has any concrete results with a full ArP gem PVP set let us know. We'd love to hear about it.
I finally decided to blow a hefty amount of gold on armor pen gems for my pvp gear. Dont do it. Armor pen isnt very good for short fights. in arena, i want to crit. and crit alot. i switched back to crit and str gems for pvp and it has gone much smoother
I’m sorry to hear that:( I wont lie I’m happy I didn’t have to do it and drop 4k worth of regemming. The question must be asked though, what was your ArP at when gemmed?
Also,
What spec(maces or axes) and what weapon?
hateful
deadly
furious
??? Answers man we need answers.
What would u go with for arms? Edge of Ruine or Iron soul?
Truthfully I've not seen Ironsoul drop, I do have Edge and Marrowstrike. Get marrowstrike if possible, if not I believe Edge is a little better than Ironsoul, especially if oyu're an orc
Im currently at 51.53% Arp pen with no grim toll(i can never seem to win that thing). At what point should i just stop with arp?
For PVE prot I like the Cleave glyph for aoe tanking over the devastate glyph.
Just my .02
I find that in Pve geming for armor pen once your over 4k ap is VERY beneficial. three 20 armor pen gems boosted my dps by roughly .5k on the dummies in orgrimar. jumping from 3k to 3.5k. though many would say that str is the only way to go, what good is AP (aka str) if the boss as to much armor to hit it. if you can ignore 40% of 100,000 armor thats 40,000 armor your swinging through.
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